Tony Snow Columnist For White Supremacists (UPDATED)

Stormfront stole it from Jewish World Review:

www.jewishworldrevie...

Uh Jamie, you're not making sense.



On your blog you write,



"Now FOX can try to spin their shameless promotion of this group all they want but we now have more proof that even their reporters support this site and their views. Nice company that Fox news is, I wonder who else on their staff promotes hate."



Now you're claiming,



"Most likley it was written and permission was granted to both sites to use the article."



So if a journalist independently writes an article and gives permission to multiple sources reprint it, how is that an example of " [Fox's] shameless promotion of this group [Stormfront]"??



Fox News is retarded, granted, but this article had nothing to do with Fox and never appeared on their website or any of their television programs.



Yours is the most tenuous link I've heard since a little story about yellowcake...



Also how exactly is the article hatespeech? Would criticizing a bunch of nutjobs like scientologists for believing in blatantly false and ridiculous ideas be "hate speech"? Or is it only hate speech if the group of morons are people of color?



I also find it interesting that you don't actually bother to try to refute any of the claims and points made by Tony Snow. Perhaps you'd care to respond to his article and the factual inaccuracies featured in Kwanzaa that he highlights?

First of all, it would probably be interesting to look up who/what the domain stormfront.org is registered to. If it's registered by some group with an innocuous sounding name/title, that could explain what he granted permission. That said, if he knowingly granted permission for Stormfront to reproduce his article, then Tony Snow has to deal with the consequences of being associated with a hate site.



Still, simply because the article was reproduced on a hate site doesn't make the article invalid. (To use an analogy, the Nazis were hate mongers and genocidal maniacs. But the Nazis also funded and did did research into the V2 rocket. Does that mean that the aeronautical and aerospace advances of the V2, which lead to the US space program, are invalid because they are associated with the Nazis?)



Also worth considering is that since the article ran on Jewish World Review, and you are claiming the article is hate speech, is JWR a hate site?



Hate is defined as "dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards".



Where in the article does he expression any of these sentiments towards African Americans as a whole, a minority group of African Americans or even specifically people who celebrate Kwanzaa?



You say, "Many of the same arguments can be used against Chirstmas and then the people raising those arguments would be critisized as "waging a war on Christman" or being anti-Christian."



The only people who would call someone "anti-Christian" for questioning the historical accuracy and facts associated with Christmas (NOT one's right to celebrate it which Snow does not criticize) are people like Jerry Falwell, William Donahue, etc.



Are you now saying that the logic and line of reasoning practiced by Falwell, Donahue et al, is correct and legitimate?



You say,



"So some African-Americans decide to make up their own holiday that they feel celebrates their heritage. Who says they can't? Traditions have to start somewhere"



First of all, African Americans didn't make their own holiday as a collective group or even a minority group. One individual did- Ron Karaunga.



Second, where in the article does Tony Snow say they can't celebrate Kwanzaa or believe whatever they want to?



Finally, you say:



"He attacks Kawnza by saying the following:

Now, the point: There is no part of Kwanzaa that is not fraudulent."



That isn't an attack, it is an assertion. It is not malacious. But since you claim it is an attack, using the facts of Kwanzaa and the information included in the article (as well as information about Kwanzaa from other sources), can you refute Tony Snow's claims that:



Kwanzaa is not based on African history, is not an African tradition, gets basic facts about Africa and lineage of African Americans wrong and is "fraudulent" (ie "fallacious testimony")?



Can you refute that?

Two final comments:



1. You state that "considering their big legal ties in the political world it would be safe to assume that it is being done so with permission."



I assume when you say "their" you are referring to Stormfront. Can you please cite these "big legal ties" and to whom they (Stormfront) are tied to and possible clarify what exactly a "big legal tie" is?



If you are asserting that Stormfront has some sort of sway in the political arena as a Republican et al special interest group, I think I should note that you are:



a)******* (edit by administration - personal attacks not tolerated)

b)claiming something without citing proof



Stormfront is a bunch of racist wackjobs. The Republican party is a shrewd political machine. They aren't going to compromise appealing to centrist voters and moderates by advocating on behalf of Stormfront.



2. You're now trying to distance yourself from your previous comments and shift the focus.



You now are saying, "My point is that the article appears on a site promoted by a race hate group to try and discredit it."



I take from that assertion that your main concern here is that a Fox contributer is (as far as we can tell) letting his article by used by a hate site. That's a legitimate grievance and I have no argument with it.



But previously you said,



"Read complete article here if you have the stomach"



as well as,



"Nice company that Fox news is, I wonder who else on their staff promotes hate."



The initial statement clearly indicates that you believe the article is disgusting (evidence by the fact that you say, "if you have the stomach").



In the latter statement you are clearly insinuating that Tony Snow is promoting hate through his article. And it is obviously the article that you are AT LEAST in part referring to or else you wouldn't have included the comment suggesting readers should view the article only if they have the stomach for it.



I don't disagree that Tony Snow needs to be questioned about whether he gave permission for a hate site to reproduce his work. We are 100% in agreement on that. My question is whether you are still content to assert that his article about Kwanzaa is hate speech or in any way hateful.

Fair enough, I apologize for the personal comment. That wasn't nice of me. I'm sorry. In keeping with your desire to not derail the actual debate, perhaps you'd like to respond to point 2 of my post:



2. You're now trying to distance yourself from your previous comments and shift the focus.



You now are saying, "My point is that the article appears on a site promoted by a race hate group to try and discredit it."



I take from that assertion that your main concern here is that a Fox contributer is (as far as we can tell) letting his article by used by a hate site. That's a legitimate grievance and I have no argument with it.



But previously you said,



"Read complete article here if you have the stomach"



as well as,



"Nice company that Fox news is, I wonder who else on their staff promotes hate."



The initial statement clearly indicates that you believe the article is disgusting (evidence by the fact that you say, "if you have the stomach").



In the latter statement you are clearly insinuating that Tony Snow is promoting hate through his article. And it is obviously the article that you are AT LEAST in part referring to or else you wouldn't have included the comment suggesting readers should view the article only if they have the stomach for it.



I don't disagree that Tony Snow needs to be questioned about whether he gave permission for a hate site to reproduce his work. We are 100% in agreement on that. My question is whether you are still content to assert that his article about Kwanzaa is hate speech or in any way hateful.



As well, given this comment,



"I found it very insulting, not just that article [...]"



Could you please explain what about the article you found insulting and on what basis/for what reasons?



Also you stated, "Did I say they were tied to the Republicans in any way?" Yet the only "political" ties are between a Reagan cabinet member and the fact that Duke, nutjob that he is, ran as a Republican. Could you possibly clarify the "big legal ties" you previously cited and explain what you mean by that phrase?



Thank you.

This is appalling.



I have heard the rumors of racism at FOXNews (GOP-TV) for some time now, but just chalked them up to the regular criticism frequently leveled at Murdock's propaganda network.



Now, thanks to your detective work, we have actual details and an example of the mindset of one of FOXNews' chief anchors in the name of Tony Snow.



I will link to your blog piece and many thanks.

.

There is also a demand that an article appearing on a Stormfront-owned site dedicated to spreading hate against Martin Luther King be refuted as to the nature of Kwanzaa.



I don't think that is necessary. There are a finite number of hours in the day. The fact that it appears on Stormfront is sufficient to discredit it.



But let me go a step or two further. Let's suppose that I wrote a post saying, "There is no part of Christmas that is not fraudulent. It's based on pagan symbols of worship. For that matter, Christian worship is cannibalistic, involving the symbolic consumption of human blood and the worship of torture-execution. Christianity is clearly a murderous religion, with Christians attacking peaceful Muslims, Christians starting wars with one another and Christians murdering one another in cold blood while proclaiming peace and love."



As a Christian, I would find that offensive... even though it contains elements of truth. It distorts the meaning of the crucifixion, which is God's proof to us that the grave shall have no power over us and perverts the meaning of communion, which reminds us that our essence comes from God.



What makes is truly offensive, rather than simply whacked out is that it brands every Christian of all time with the misdeeds of some.



Snow's article is similarly offensive.



But is it true?



I don't even need to go to Wikipedia to know that for the few people who celebrate Kwanzaa, it isn't as Snow portrays it. But if I go, I am certain.



Yes, Ron Karenga was a felon and a Marxist.



Jesus was also a felon, sentenced to death. And the Republican Party often confuses his followers with Marxists whenever they stray from reproving sexual sins into talking about the Sermon on the Mount.



The principles Karenga laid down are similar to those of many nationalistic movements (See also the FAQ) The principles are about as controversial as vanilla ice cream.



As for how it manifests in practice, I have no idea. I am reasonably certain Tony Snow doesn't either. Whatever Snow's personal feelings about African Americans are, Kwanzaa is just one more symbol of African American-ness on which to pour hate.



That's the lesson to take away from the fact that Stormfront posted it.



Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, and Imani to all.

I'm certainly no fan of Fox News, Tony Snow, or the administration that chose him as its press secretary, but his words have been taken out of context. I'm not a biographer of Tony Snow, and for all I know he could be a racist, but that is not conveyed in this article. He was simply trying to say in the quote cited that the name "Kwanzaa" is inappropriate, since Swahili is of little significance to most African Americans. It is an East African language, and most African Americans are of West African heritage.

Now, according to Wikipedia, the use of an East African language was intended as a symbol of Pan-Africanism. However, many of those who have real connections to their African roots reject the concept of Pan-Africanism, and rightfully so. Africa is a very large and diverse continent, and there's no reason to make believe that there is one quintessential "African" culture any more than there is to believe in such a European or North American culture.

Kwanzaa does, however, hold significance to many African Americans, for a variety of reasons, and of course there's no harm in their celebration of a symbol of their own cultural distinction from the rest of Americans. The background of Kwanzaa, though, should be understood before it is lauded as a real, significant commemoration of African heritage in America.

As for the comparison of Ron Karenga to Jesus, I believe this is misleading. According to Wikipedia, albeit not the most reliable of sources, Ron Karenga was convicted of felonious assault and false imprisonment inflicted on two women, who were themselves African American and members of the Black Nationalist organization United Slaves, which Karenga founded. He was not convicted, as the alignment with Jesus Christ suggests, of anything related to the advancement of the Black Nationalist cause, and in fact can only be said to have oppressed some of the very people he claimed to be helping to free.

Tony Snow's words were not "hate speech," however one feels about his position on Kwanzaa. The article does seem to be used as a means of attacking Clinton, who endorsed Kwanzaa, and perhaps it is conservatively slanted. But let's keep some perspective here. If Fox News or Snow do have ties to a white supremacy movement, let's add credibility to our cause and find some real evidence, rather than take an educated and rational argument out of context.